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 ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011

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hawkeye
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PostSubject: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:28 am



Let me know what you think!!!
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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:04 pm

Dang I forgot about it ... must watch this !!!

Thanks Hawk!

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:30 pm

I watched it all yesterday!!! I love the ideas they put forward but for the life of me cant see how it would work! look forward to discussing though!!!
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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:17 pm

I watched the first one and the 2nd one called addendum. Then I havent kept up so is this the 3rd one?

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:22 pm

Yeah its the 3rd one and was released 2days ago!
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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:49 am

I watched the whole movie now.

For me this is nothing new but I believe one thing is funny. The leftwinged anarchists and communists/socialists in Sweden been saying almost the exactly same thing for years. Then the zeitgeist guys says they are not marxists or any political ideologies when they preach and say the exact same thing as the modern socialists/anarchists say. Can also mention in Sweden the only ones who supports the zeitgeist movements are from the leftwing movements.

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:37 pm

hmm... let's see what they are sayn in this one
what do you think about this new bully war with Libya?
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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:30 am

rinmotoka wrote:
hmm... let's see what they are sayn in this one
what do you think about this new bully war with Libya?

Kadafi should be hang on a branch.... Sending aircafts to bomb libian people should be bannable from RL

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:37 am

I dont think US, UN will make any sh!t better. War never solves anything and against people like Khadaffi it wont work cause he will surely make sure that he kill as many as he can before he dies.

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:18 pm

US,France are only there not to defend any libian people... they are there to defend the oil...
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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:24 am

[PT] wrote:
US,France are only there not to defend any libian people... they are there to defend the oil...

Exactly they dont go to all other f@cked up places they only go to the places where there's some resources.

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:54 am

So They should not react in Libia case ?

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:57 pm

WarMir wrote:
So They should not react in Libia case ?

And what really do they expect to do with more violence? The reason why Khadaffi remained when all the other MENA leaders got overthrown is because he got more support by his people.

If they remove Khadaffi what are they supposed to to then? Libya is still split into two sides which would still fight about power. What will happen when the western world leaves? Probably a big civil war or if they dont leave they will have an occupation for years which will only be about the oil.

We can all see whats happening with Iraq the only difference then was that it was no civil war now its a f@cking chaos which probably led to more deaths than Saddam would cause if he would still be alive.

War never solved anything and it never will either.

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:04 pm

well WarMir do you believe that this "revolution" was started by libyan people an not by France or US or other "world powers" like it happened in other countries too, don't tell me you really believe they are doing it for the people... if they were trying to help some poor ppl and save some lives they could have deployed all that military power in Japan and help the people there. Instead let's just snoop around another country business which happens to have lot's of oil, lot's of money, no debts to certain world wide money institutions and "conquer" it and make it some capitalism colony where certain franchises and companies can open their shops.
In the same time let's divert the attention from the disaster in Japan that could affect other countries too and let's start possibly the World War III
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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:10 am

So Tunisia, Egypt, Jemen, Libia situations were provoked by France, US etc ?
Do You know that its like fire when people rise ?

And yes i belive its people, who got enough of living in dictators countries without money and living in poverty. Very similiar situation We got in Poland in past (in Romania was even worst, right?). Police was shoting, military soldiers was shoting people who wanted go to work, kiling alot of them so We rised and kicked russians from our Country. Did US and France done it too ? Or Polish people ?

Are You sure its libian people who fight on Kadafi side ? I sugest You look deeper in internet... even on youtube.

And what ? Send army to Japan, for what ? To fight nuclear powers ?

Its about Kadafi, not petrol...

I will ask again ... So they should do not react in Libia case ?

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:48 am

There's a big difference between the Soviet occupation in eastern Europe and MENA dictatorships. Its way easier to hate foreigners occupating your country and rally people to kick them out. You can rally people from all political sides to kick out foreigners.

Look at the different MENA countries which recently overthrown or tries to overthrow their government. All countries were the dictators had small support got removed quite easily while Mubarak in Egypt who had lots of support stayed for a long time and its same for Khadaffi the only difference is that he's the most violent of them.

If you look at the pictures/vids the ones which want to remove Khadaffi there's loads of clashes with people who supports him and people against him. Not all clashes in Libya involves the police/military vs protesters.

And America already sent soldiers to japan to help with the rebuilding they should have sent more of them there instead of wasting them in a war.

If USA really gave a sh!t they would have soldiers in whole Africa where dictators slaughters thousands of people. They would stop Israel settlers and their genocide on palestinians. There's loads of cases were they could show they care but when the countries got nothing worth of value to them they wont bother.

Look at Iraq now its f@ckin chaos now even though they removed the bad guy Saddam who were supposed to have weapons of mass destruction but they did get him killed and didnt find any weapons the only thing they did was securing the oil and made sure the american weapon industry kept on growing.

War never solved anything it only kills people and makes sure the weapon industry keeps getting a profit.

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When theres no enemies,
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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:38 pm

What big difference ?

Poland-Russian and Polish Army ready to strike when General say.
(There was even ZOMO: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZOMO )

Libia- Libian Army, African and other mercenaries ready to strike when Kadaffi say.
(Many libian soldiers refused attack libian people, they get killed or left Kadaffi and joined rebels.)

But... the point is not to look for differences but look for common things, one of the good examples is Spring of Nations :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848
and:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1989
Its poverty that push people to this... Seeing dictators and his people living on the highest level when other people are poor
provoke revolutions, and its like fire that started in Tunisia..
We will see...


In Egypt, Military Forces refused shoot to people, good there was someone who controlled Army..
In Libia Army control who ? :S
Of course Kadafi...

Kadaffi is just "most violent than other dictators ?
Paying mercenaries,sending aircraft bombers and tanks against libian people make him just
"most violent" ? Imagine it now in Your Country...
I must remind Pan Am Flight 103:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103
He is devil like, psyhopatic terrorist and serial killer, its crime against humanity...


You say what will be if Kadafi will be removed ? That there will be chaos ? Now...
Think what will be if he stay....
Libia turn in one big blood bath. He will murder everyone he need, to stay safe...
Then will go back to his palace to do bungabunga but propably this time without Berlusconi...
Libian people propably will remain really disappointed after whole world was just watching whats hapened.
Then many would propably join AlKaida leaving Libia... Then, who knows..

Africa ? They are in Africa too but They are not doing now any spectacular actions so its not in press. Israel, Palestina ? You think what they should do there ? Bomb Israel ? Do what ? You know how many people try keep peace there ? I dont now, but many XD

You say ONZ should do what !? Remember, its Arab League that asked ONZ for help.
My question is still without answer :
So they should do not react in Libia case ?

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:55 pm

As I said there's a huge difference between when one country occupies another (Soviet union) and when a dictator takes control over his own country.

When you rally people there's always easy to rally them against an another country cause people from almost all political ideologies could join when it becomes nation vs nation almost every citizen will back up their own country.

When it comes to dictatorship you cant unite one country against another country. Now its different things involved like political ideologies communists wont unite against a communist dictator. The dictator really needs to f@ck up bad to get the majority people against him.

Then of course there are the common things which will trigger people from the beginning which are mostly reasons like poverty, state violence and all other shit which gives people sh!tty lives.

Spring of nations is an example but there's also a big difference here from whats happening right now. Then it was when politicks took over and kick out monarchy and old and sh!tty systems which didnt work anymore. People were starving and treated as sh!t while the nobles and monarchs lived lives of luxury while people couldnt do anything against it. People realised the old kings and queens system didnt work anymore which forced people to find a new better system and it later devoloped to the modern societies we hae today.

What is happening right now in MENA is also very similiar cause its out with the old and in with the new its their version of spring of nations but its happening in a different time. Back in the 1800th spring of nations no country interfered with another country during their revolution. England didnt say "Man that king of France is a murderer who kills his own people" and there was no USA who could bomb the sh!t out of everything they consider unfair.

The difference here is the world police who claims to have the right to decide whats right or wrong. They think they can decide when killing is a good thing and when killing is bad thing. 100 years ago no country would interfere with another countries politicks.

WarMir wrote:
You say what will be if Kadafi will be removed ? That there will be chaos ? Now...
Think what will be if he stay....
Libia turn in one big blood bath. He will murder everyone he need, to stay safe...
Then will go back to his palace to do bungabunga but propably this time without Berlusconi...
Libian people propably reamin really disappointed after whole world was just watching whats hapened.
Then many would propably join AlKaida leaving Libia... Then, who knows..

Look at Iraq now when they removed Saddam... years later the country is still f@cked up.

Of course if he stays there will be a bloodbath but that will be nothing now compared to when we now put USA and other soldiers in there to kill some more. To stop a bloodbath its already too late. Murdering people on Khadaffis side would also count as a bloodbath + imagine all the civilians which will probably die in loads more when you involve lots of different countries from around the world compared to when there was just a civil war in a small country in north africa.

WarMir wrote:
Africa ? They are in Africa too but They are not doing
now any spectacular actions so its not in press. Israel, Palestina ?
You think what they should do there ? Bomb Israel ? Do what ? You know
how many people try keep peace there ? I dont now, but many XD

Still Libya is top ten of the countries who got most oil in the world. USA secure the oil while their weapon industry get loads of cash.

And what was the first thing they did? The first thing they did was bombing the sh!t out of Khadaffis forces. It didnt take long time until they did. In the rest of Africa where there are no useful resources for them they obviously doesnt work as fast and effective to prevent dictators from murdering their own people.

Same with Israel and Palestine they can obviously put som peace forces there to prevent the two sides to kill eachother and they cant bomb the sh!t out one side either no matter how many people they murder.

WarMir wrote:

You say ONZ should do what !? My question is still without answer :
So they should do not react in Libia case ?

I believed I answer that earlier with that war doesnt solve sh!t.

If war and bombing the sh!t out of the bad guys was the solution to world peace why havent we done it yet? Why havent USA murdered all bad dictators and their followers? Why havent we forced the western societies onto the 3rd world with violence since it would bring peace?

Obviously people dying isnt the problem since killing is the solution so a small sacrifice on innocent people would be worth it to recieve world peace? Or is it the economy which is the problem? Doesnt USA have enough money to bomb all the bad guys so we would have world peace? The weapon industry would explode and employ almost everyone which would also eliminate poverty in the whole world cause everyone makes bombs to kill @rseholes which would lead to world peace.

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:16 pm

DizordA wrote:
If
war and bombing the sh!t out of the bad guys was the solution to world
peace why havent we done it yet? Why havent USA murdered all bad
dictators and their followers? Why havent we forced the western
societies onto the 3rd world with violence since it would bring peace?
Maybe because :
DizordA wrote:
I believed I answer that earlier with that war doesnt solve sh!t.



ps. Kadafi is bad pker and should go to jail. And i am waiting for next nations Weeee, Spring is coming Its started in Tunisia...

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:36 am

Just to clarify I also believe Khadaffi is a retard which should kill himself I do not support him in any way but I believe that when the western world tries to fix it it willk only get worse.

About MENA right now I dont care much since its their area the people there should decide what they want to do with it me up here should mind my own business.

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I sit and stare at my T.V.
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I'll be a slave and sycophant!

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:50 pm

WarMir wrote:
So Tunisia, Egypt, Jemen, Libia situations were provoked by France, US etc ?
Do You know that its like fire when people rise ?

And yes i belive its people, who got enough of living in dictators countries without money and living in poverty. Very similiar situation We got in Poland in past (in Romania was even worst, right?). Police was shoting, military soldiers was shoting people who wanted go to work, kiling alot of them so We rised and kicked russians from our Country. Did US and France done it too ? Or Polish people ?

Are You sure its libian people who fight on Kadafi side ? I sugest You look deeper in internet... even on youtube.

And what ? Send army to Japan, for what ? To fight nuclear powers ?

Its about Kadafi, not petrol...

I will ask again ... So they should do not react in Libia case ?

Well warmir after a second attempt to reply you about our countries revolutions that both ended in a big fail because I wrote for like an hour with all sorts of links and real proofs around the internet I was logged out and didn't saved my whole post I quit :) and give you a shorter story. Maybe some day I will get back on this whole revolutions, mother russia thing.

Our "revolutions" were fake and part of a bigger plan/strategy made by KGB and put in practice by Mikhail Gorbachev wich was to "deprave the US of it's biggest enemy", transform the whole visible "red blanket" Iron Curtain in a invisible enemy that could control all those eastern countries from the "backstage" and let the western technology and economy enter where wasn't allowed to be easily studied (spied).

Don't you think is weird that all these countries revolted in the same year?!? If you believe that your people decided to revolt by themselves you are naive.

Maybe the U.R.S.S plan backfired over the time and they really loss some of those countries and the influence over them, but they ended up under another western invisible "ruler".

In our country it was Spetsnaz special units (all secret services of the great powers or regional powers possess the specialized units in the launch of popular uprisings, revolutions and liberation movements. These units are composed of experts in the techniques of disinformation and manipulation of the masses, which acts in the target countries under different coverage at the right time: tourists, journalists, diplomats, charity team, priests, athletes) that started the revolution at Timisoara.

We didn't wanna revolt back then... everybody had a place to work, a house (Ceausescu was giving free houses to the young ppl who were starting a family) , a car, no debts to IMF, free educational system (books included), a developed industry with exports to other countries. Now we are just another consumers market for global power companies, we live with rents all our life and we are lucky if we inherit our parents or grandparents house, we barely find a place to work and live a decent life, the current educational system is a failure and will produce stupid, retarded, controllable drones of people, we sold our main industries and amenities like electric company, public transport, phone company, oil company, naval fleet and so on....

Ceausescu times and communism were quite good, if only he would have loosen the reins/collar a little bit and give the ppl a little more freedom all of that wouldn't happen.

So I stand by my opinion. US, UK, France and all the others should have stayed in their place and not get involved in the Libyan situation. They should have let them resolved their problems internally.
Not all the outside intervention is good or welcomed every time.
Not all the foreign powers look out for the respective country best interest. They may save you from one problem but put you in a far worse situation.
Not all the people react good to democracy some ppl really need dictatorships because they don't know what to do with freedom or they are lazy.
You can't judge and make decisions for another country and their people when you can't even make good decisions for your country and your people.
Every country has its own "engine" which will take you years to understand...
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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:51 pm

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:34 am

Quote :

Our "revolutions" were fake and part of a bigger plan/strategy made by KGB and put in practice by Mikhail Gorbachev wich was to "deprave the US of it's biggest enemy", transform the whole visible "red blanket" Iron Curtain in a invisible enemy that could control all those eastern countries from the "backstage" and let the western technology and economy enter where wasn't allowed to be easily studied (spied).
Man You must be joking, You call "Revolutions of 1989" a fake revolutions !? So its Russia who provoked all revolutions !? Lol I would agree that western countries put their fingers in some way but Russia? Could You give me any link where its said by anyone ? Its very original idea lol.
Add: I just spoke with 5 people who remeber that times vety good asking about Your idea. Iam sorry, They started to laugh.

Quote :

Don't you think is weird that all these countries revolted in the same year?!? If you believe that your people decided to revolt by themselves you are naive.
Man its nothing strange that it happened in the same year, its like this. :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_revolution
Now is coming Arab Spring of Nations...
Och wait its all in the same Year ? Its strange for You that countries rise one after one in short period of time ?

Quote :

Maybe the U.R.S.S plan backfired over the time and they really loss some of those countries and the influence over them, but they ended up under another western invisible "ruler".
Yeah then Russia had very strange plan and it was a big fail then lol

Quote :

We didn't wanna revolt back then... everybody had a place to work, a house (Ceausescu was giving free houses to the young ppl who were starting a family) , a car, no debts to IMF, free educational system (books included), a developed industry with exports to other countries. Now we are just another consumers market for global power companies, we live with rents all our life and we are lucky if we inherit our parents or grandparents house, we barely find a place to work and live a decent life, the current educational system is a failure and will produce stupid, retarded, controllable drones of people, we sold our main industries and amenities like electric company, public transport, phone company, oil company, naval fleet and so on....
So it was so good that times, everybody had work and money. Yeah You forgot to add that You cant eat money when You are hungry.
Shops in that times:

Past and today:

Cars:

Houses: (850 meters long)


And You think that it was FREE !? Do You belive anything may be FREE !? Nothing is free !



Quote :

Not all the people react good to democracy some ppl really need dictatorships because they don't know what to do with freedom or they are lazy.
You can't judge and make decisions for another country and their people when you can't even make good decisions for your country and your people.
Every country has its own "engine" which will take you years to understand...

So, it would be better leave Kadaffi in peace and let him kill his people.
Nice, i think libian people would not be happy if someone would tell them that They should live in dictatorships because They are not able to drive Their Contry or They are lazy Oo

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:34 am

WarMir wrote:

Man You must be joking, You call "Revolutions of 1989" a fake revolutions !? So its Russia who provoked all revolutions !? Lol I would agree that western countries put their fingers in some way but Russia? Could You give me any link where its said by anyone ? Its very original idea lol.
Add: I just spoke with 5 people who remeber that times vety good asking about Your idea. Iam sorry, They started to laugh.

There are prime misters, presidents and other politicians that admit and confess in documentaries and books that all those revolutions in eastern europe were orchestrated by U.R.S.S head of KGB Yuri Andropov and the front man, the public face none other than Mikhail Gorbachev.

Erich Honecker the comunist leader back when the RDG existed admits and tells about the plan of URSS to tear down the Berlin wall on german television DSF back in 10.09.1990
this tells the story behind what we witnessed at tv (the beautiful moment when ppl hammer down the berlin wall), about the secret KGB unit that was in charge restructuring of East German political landscape as the Kremlin's strategy in preparation reunification. This secret unit was in charge of organizing street demonstrations - some totaling 100,000 people - anti-Soviet and anti-communist.

Gyula Horn, communist Hungary's Foreign Minister - an old member of the Hungarian secret service AVO confirms the Berlin wall story and documents submitted by the Hungarian Television in May l994

Václav Havel the former president of Czechoslovakia admits on BBC in a documentary( Czechmate ) that the "Velvet Revolution" from 17.11.1989 was started by KGB

Yevgenia Albats offered many details about the activities of the KGB in the eastern european revolutions in her book

Mark Almond reached the conclusion that the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia was triggered by a KGB plot in his book

The document I've read concentrates more on the Romanian Revolution and the ppl behind it that helped KGB and less on the other countries back then, so I don't have lot's of proofs about all the other countries. But confessions of ex presidents involved in that period worth more than what everyday people remember.

And yes I find it strange that in one year 9 countries decided to end communism without outside interference and help.

If it was something spontaneous in 22 december 1989 why there were:
at the border with the USSR, in Galati-Braila area, Soviet intervention forces composed of soldiers and tanks,
at the border with Bulgaria, at Ruse, a concentration of French GIGN units,
at the Romanian-Hungarian border, ready for intervention, units of the famous West German GSG 9 force, on 13 december 1989 ?!?
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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:14 pm

rinmotoka wrote:

And yes I find it strange that in one year 9 countries decided to end communism without outside interference and help.

Heh.
I agree that KGB was operating in all Countries, it was normal, We were occupied by Russians
I agree that new Presidents after 1989 could cooperate AT SOME POINT with KGB but They were not a Russian spies lol
You are wrong in point that reason of revolutions was to spy for new
technology and economy. This made laugh everyone i spoke with .

At the start communism was good even USA Block was still attacking (google translated):
Trybuna Ludu
"The authorities of the Republic revealed the unprecedented crime. American aircraft, in violation of established zones of flights at night dropped a huge amount of Colorado potato beetle in the vicinity of Zwikau, Werdau, Lichtentanne, Eibenstock and Bernsdorf. (...) Many eyewitnesses confirmed the fact of dropping into the Colorado potato beetle western Saxony. The municipality collected and disposed Schoenfeld Friday evening in 2600 pieces of Colorado potato beetle. In the village Ebersbrunn found to noon Saturdays 800 pieces of these insects. "




....but after time everything crowded.
Shops became empty (because all products were send to Mother Russia it was difficult to even buy toilet paper
(even everyone was working and earning money, my mom was earning 2 million złotych per month at some point ).

People became angry because all of them were working and PRODUCING many goods but it was impossible to get them.
Presidents were talkin : "In this hard times We need to walk arm in arm,
together survive bad times especially We can see that USA is silenly
sabotage Us at every point"

Polish people get very angry seeing all Tops having everything when, working people can get goods only with "Ration Stamps":


Then Rise:



Mother Russia in this time got big financial problems especially they made controlled countries a bankrupts.
....Now Russia need to find a way out from this situation. So it comes..
Mikhail Gorbachev and His Perestroika


At this point Mikhail Gorbachev accept to talk with first (Illegal)
Opposition Factions,
in Poland: Round Table


Now all Countries know what to do... Opposition got a chance... (They got a sign from Mikhail Gorbachev that They can try on their own) Rage of People rise...

by Jadwiga Staniszkis : "authorities in the Kremlin decided to opt out of military domination in the region, while preserving a significant impact on the transformation of the system of these countries "

Russia accept proposition for public partial parlamentar voting.
People in Poland were already too tired of this situation. Opposition called ... People Rised. Then it was domino effect.

KGB still had Russian money for banckrupt Countries so they tried many tricks but they lost in voting (lol):
First Polish President in 1989: Lech Wałęsa .
Read His wiki and You will see that:

Its People and Their poverty that made it, Economic Problems done it, not KGB or CIA for spying for high-tech info

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PostSubject: Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011   Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:48 pm

It's clear that I can't change your opinion about what happen in your country in 89 and you can't change my opinion about what happen in my country.

Take a look at the this site page http://mathaba.net/go/?http://clothcap.livejournal.com/74122.html and read about the current problem with Libya

Human rights? Poor ppl of Libya?

LE :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlqvDXWWC3U#t=4m12s (don't you think this is similar to 89... and yet the ppl have the power, those ppl that are so easy to manipulate)
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